Help - Steep Mechanic's Bill

I'm going to hold short of going on a rant here until I get some opinions, but the story is that I took my 2001 Legacy B4 to a mechanic (name withheld for now) to to get the cambelt, water pump, tensioners and sparks replaced, along with a service and WOF. That's all I asked for. Nothing more. No recommendations were made to me to do further work.

I was prepared for a decent bill (high $1000 to $2000 I thought was reasonable), given that boxers are notorious for getting to the belts on, and there would be labour costs associated with it.

What I wasn't prepared for was a bill of $2,855!

I've itemised what was on the invoice... can someone with a bit more nous about cars than I have tell me if this seems reasonable for what I requested (there seems to be a few things I didn't ask for, but may have been required - I don't know. I was never asked.)

Also 11 hours labour for this seems ridiculous. I mean, I know its not an easy engine to work on, but I thought 7-8ish would be more likely.

[table]

[tr][td]Item[/td][td]Qty[/td][td]Unit[/td][td]Subtotal[/td][td]GST[/td][td]Total[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Warrant of Fitness[/td][td]1[/td][td]$56.52[/td][td]$56.52[/td][td]$8.48[/td][td]$65.00[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Proflex GT1 5W-30[/td][td]5[/td][td]$19.90[/td][td]$99.50[/td][td]$14.93[/td][td]$114.43[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Oil Filter[/td][td]1[/td][td]$17.50[/td][td]$17.50[/td][td]$2.63[/td][td]$20.13[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Oil System Flush[/td][td]1[/td][td]$14.85[/td][td]$14.85[/td][td]$2.23[/td][td]$17.08[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Window Washer / Grease / Brake Fluid[/td][td]1[/td][td]$3.49[/td][td]$3.49[/td][td]$0.52[/td][td]$4.01[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Spark Plugs[/td][td]4[/td][td]$18.85[/td][td]$75.40[/td][td]$11.31[/td][td]$86.71[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Drive Belt[/td][td]1[/td][td]$36.30[/td][td]$36.30[/td][td]$5.45[/td][td]$41.75[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Cambelt Kit[/td][td]1[/td][td]$635.00[/td][td]$635.00[/td][td]$95.25[/td][td]$730.25[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Cam Seal[/td][td]4[/td][td]$19.50[/td][td]$78.00[/td][td]$11.70[/td][td]$89.70[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Oil Pump O Ring[/td][td]1[/td][td]$8.70[/td][td]$8.70[/td][td]$1.31[/td][td]$10.01[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Water Pump Kit Incl Thermostat[/td][td]1[/td][td]$199.50[/td][td]$199.50[/td][td]$29.93[/td][td]$229.43[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Rocker Cover Gasket Kit[/td][td]1[/td][td]$224.50[/td][td]$224.50[/td][td]$33.68[/td][td]$258.18[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Cylinder Head Plug[/td][td]4[/td][td]$14.00[/td][td]$56.00[/td][td]$8.40[/td][td]$64.40[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Antifreeze[/td][td]2.5[/td][td]$13.35[/td][td]$33.38[/td][td]$5.01[/td][td]$38.38[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Radiator Cap[/td][td]1[/td][td]$26.60[/td][td]$26.60[/td][td]$3.99[/td][td]$30.59[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Freight[/td][td]2[/td][td]$12.00[/td][td]$24.00[/td][td]$3.60[/td][td]$27.60[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Sundries[/td][td]1[/td][td]$25.00[/td][td]$25.00[/td][td]$3.75[/td][td]$28.75[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Labour[/td][td]11[/td][td]$79.00[/td][td]$869.00[/td][td]$130.35[/td][td]$999.35[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]$2,483.24[/td][td]$372.49[/td][td]$2,855.72[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Am I being unreasonable, or is this steep?

Either way, I think its time to learn how to do this myself!

Appreciate any feedback.

I had my head/rocker cover gaskets replaced but while it was out I also got the waterpump/cambelt and a new clutch done,

grand total $3250

Just the heads and cambelt etc came to around $2600 with 17 hours labour.

I think it's expensive... healthy markup on parts and padded hours. Get a quote next time.

Diff and transfluid should probably be on that list if its the 100/200k service?

In the past when I have asked Winger for estimate of service I have been told about $2000 including cambelt, water pump, sparks and fluids (and what ever comes with 100k service)

Thanks guys - looks like I might have to suck the kumara on this one and get a quote next time!

Item Qty Unit Subtotal GST Total

Warrant of Fitness 1 $65.00 (most places are around $35-45)

Proflex GT1 5W-30 5 $114.43 (I don't know the quality/brand of that oil but for comparison my last oil cost $49 on special normally $69, and that was for good quality oil)

Oil Filter 1 $20.13 (as aboe my last one was $12 retail)

Oil System Flush 1 $14.85 $14.85 $2.23 $17.08 (fair)

Window Washer / Grease / Brake Fluid 1 $3.49 $3.49 $0.52 $4.01 (fair)

Spark Plugs 4 $18.85 - $86.71 ( I would enquire as to which were used, coppers bkr6e are like $7 each retail, but the platinum are something like $40 now)

Cambelt Kit 1 $635.00 $635.00 $95.25 $730.25 (seems very dear, but retail may come to that, again need to know what parts used? Genuine is probably about that )

Cam Seal 4 $19.50 - $89.70 (fair)

Oil Pump O Ring 1 $10.01 (fair)

Water Pump Kit Incl Thermostat 1 $229.43(seems very dear, but retail may come to that, again need to know what parts used? Genuine is probably about that)

Rocker Cover Gasket Kit 1 $258.18 (Fair if genuine and is complete but need to know which items were replaced as there is a few extras in that area)

Antifreeze 2.5 - $38.38 (very dear, see prices online for this are less than $20, depends on quality too)

Radiator Cap 1 $30.59 (fair)

Freight 2 $12.00 $24.00 $3.60 $27.60 (fair)

Sundries 1 $25.00 $25.00 $3.75 $28.75 (fair, almost too cheap lol, would expect some things to need replacing in the hoses department)

Labour 11 $79.00 $869.00 $130.35 $999.35 (fair)

The labour seems reasonable for a good quality service/going over and checking everything, but full retail+ pricing on parts is quite harsh. Then again I'm cheap and do everything myself so I don't know what shops charge these days. I would enquire at another subaru shop for the same service. I think full 100k cambelt service including cam seals/waterpump was $1300 mark on my ver2 but this was about 5 years ago now. That was through armstrong subaru which is full genuine parts used and basically the best place to take your car. If those parts aren't genuine I would think that was way way overpriced.

 slystiguy said:

Item Qty Unit Subtotal GST Total

Warrant of Fitness 1 $65.00 (most places are around $35-45)

Proflex GT1 5W-30 5 $114.43 (I don't know the quality/brand of that oil but for comparison my last oil cost $49 on special normally $69, and that was for good quality oil)

Oil Filter 1 $20.13 (as aboe my last one was $12 retail)

Oil System Flush 1 $14.85 $14.85 $2.23 $17.08 (fair)

Window Washer / Grease / Brake Fluid 1 $3.49 $3.49 $0.52 $4.01 (fair)

Spark Plugs 4 $18.85 - $86.71 ( I would enquire as to which were used, coppers bkr6e are like $7 each retail, but the platinum are something like $40 now)

Cambelt Kit 1 $635.00 $635.00 $95.25 $730.25 (seems very dear, but retail may come to that, again need to know what parts used? Genuine is probably about that )

Cam Seal 4 $19.50 - $89.70 (fair)

Oil Pump O Ring 1 $10.01 (fair)

Water Pump Kit Incl Thermostat 1 $229.43(seems very dear, but retail may come to that, again need to know what parts used? Genuine is probably about that)

Rocker Cover Gasket Kit 1 $258.18 (Fair if genuine and is complete but need to know which items were replaced as there is a few extras in that area)

Antifreeze 2.5 - $38.38 (very dear, see prices online for this are less than $20, depends on quality too)

Radiator Cap 1 $30.59 (fair)

Freight 2 $12.00 $24.00 $3.60 $27.60 (fair)

Sundries 1 $25.00 $25.00 $3.75 $28.75 (fair, almost too cheap lol, would expect some things to need replacing in the hoses department)

Labour 11 $79.00 $869.00 $130.35 $999.35 (fair)

The labour seems reasonable for a good quality service/going over and checking everything, but full retail+ pricing on parts is quite harsh. Then again I'm cheap and do everything myself so I don't know what shops charge these days. I would enquire at another subaru shop for the same service. I think full 100k cambelt service including cam seals/waterpump was $1300 mark on my ver2 but this was about 5 years ago now. That was through armstrong subaru which is full genuine parts used and basically the best place to take your car. If those parts aren't genuine I would think that was way way overpriced.

Thanks! Yeah it must be OEM parts... Either way, I'm heading over to the DIY section now!

Parts are higher than rrp imo. Hours are acceptable and good rate. No idea why rocker cover gaskets were done without telling you they were leaking. Would tell them to get fkd on that. Caps hideously over priced. Check what plugs were used as above. That oil price is what you pay at a workshop always do your own oil change.

 evowrx said:

Parts are higher than rrp imo. Hours are acceptable and good rate. No idea why rocker cover gaskets were done without telling you they were leaking. Would tell them to get fkd on that. Caps hideously over priced. Check what plugs were used as above. That oil price is what you pay at a workshop always do your own oil change.

Thanks, will ask about the rocker cover gaskets. Lesson has definitely been learned...

Ask for all the boxes / wrappings that the parts come in. At least then you can be sure that OEM parts were used. I'd also question the rocker covers, as that is a job on it's own. And since you didn't ask for that to be done.. why would they do it?

Also, was it a Subaru-specific mechanic or a run of the mill one? If it was someone like Armstrong or a Subaru dealership, then I could believe those prices..

pretty sure trade price on a genuine cambelt kit is under $400.

 Scoobydoo said:

Ask for all the boxes / wrappings that the parts come in. At least then you can be sure that OEM parts were used. I'd also question the rocker covers, as that is a job on it's own. And since you didn't ask for that to be done.. why would they do it?

Also, was it a Subaru-specific mechanic or a run of the mill one? If it was someone like Armstrong or a Subaru dealership, then I could believe those prices..

Good idea - I will ask about packaging.

It was just a run of the mill, non-franchise mechanic.

I might be slightly wrong here but if they haven't quote you for extra work over and above what you have stated and they haven't asked for permission to do the work then you don't have to pay. That said with out a written quote it might be hard to argue. Did they give you any reason for the rocker cover gasket? or the cylinder head plugs? was there anything wrong with them or is it a standard thing they do when replacing the water pump? you need to ask as if its not standard then don't pay for that as well as rocker cover gasket.

I had a full cambelt kit inc water pump done at Winger Subaru Hamilton (Genuine Parts), $1100 all up including labour. Subtech also run regular deals and it works out to be $900 all up (inc water pump). (See price here http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/subaru/engines/auction-943767077.htm)

Looks like they are chaging you again for things that are included in a full cambelt kit.

$113 for synthetic oil is a rip off, and why they would use unicorn blood without asking you vs any decent semi or fully synthetic is beyond me. For $85 at Repco you can buy Penrite PAO Ester,

Sparkplugs fair enough if they are Platnium, they are easy to get at while cambelt is being done

$65 is about right (For a testing station !!!)

Id say you were about $400-$500 over charged, based on that list, what do others think ???

I dont think many on here have any idea how workshops charge or how they operate. Buying oil from a shop is not the same as paying for oil in an oil change at a workshop. Same goes for the 10 buck filter costing 20 buck he paid 4 bucks...

 evowrx said:

I dont think many on here have any idea how workshops charge or how they operate. Buying oil from a shop is not the same as paying for oil in an oil change at a workshop. Same goes for the 10 buck filter costing 20 buck he paid 4 bucks...

+1

Only thing I have an issue with is any work that was not approved. I know when I worked in a workshop you had to get customers approvals on any other issues found. If the work wan't approved the customer did not have to pay. And always ask for the parts afterwards to make sure they have actually replaced the part.

I have this problem at work regularly

Person says "do this job for me"

We estimate "Between 2-3k" for this work, we'll do the best we can time wise but it'll take what it takes (not mechanical work but vaguely similar)

End result say 2750. They'll argue every costing, then the labour time, to get it to the "TWO GRAND YOU PROMISED" - my reply is always if you want to source all the parts yourself, you're welcome to. Since you haven't, as with any line of work we'll put our 10% on those parts, we'll use the products we prefer, and we'll charge you for the time it took us - not the time it could take somewhere else

Subaru workshop may do the job in 8 hours due to a conveyor belt of the same job being done 5 times a week and charge accordingly, a joe bloggs workshop who does 2 or 3 subaru cambelts a year will take longer and charge accordingly

You chose to go there, you chose not to get a quote up front, you could haggle some small parts of this bill but it does look relatively legit to me and they haven't cut any corners

Workshops work on a lot more than 10%. Most cbf with people who supply own parts because a) half the time theyre incorrect b) theyre **** quality which once they fail reflects on workshop warranty or not c) theyll build money into labour and anything else they can work it into

Marky, I'm aware I should have gotten a quote beforehand, and like I said, I have learned my lesson for next time. Not looking for a reason to rip him off either, just checking with the experts here that it is a fair price since it just struck me as quite high.

Thanks for the feedback all. I'm going to query the rocker cover gaskets and head plugs since they weren't requested / authorized. Will share the result.

Query the oil as well, the retail price on it is $70 inc GST

http://www.autonorth.co.nz/shop/Oil/Engine+Oils/Petrol+Engine+Oils/Fuchs/Fuchs+Titan+GT1+Proflex+5W-30-FU3849000.html

Looks like quality stuff. but the 50% mark up is quite rude considering they most likely pay less than $70 a pack (or have it in bulk).

 heylinb4nz said:

Query the oil as well, the retail price on it is $70 inc GST

http://www.autonorth.co.nz/shop/Oil/Engine+Oils/Petrol+Engine+Oils/Fuchs/Fuchs+Titan+GT1+Proflex+5W-30-FU3849000.html

Looks like quality stuff. but the 50% mark up is quite rude considering they most likely pay less than $70 a pack (or have it in bulk).

Standard procedure.

 Joker said:

I'll be t they were necessary tho & saved you another $600 down the line

May be necessary, but its the fact they didn't check first is where I see the issue. Quick call to say this needs doing or will need to be done soon and good time to do it, then up to the client to decide if they want to spend the money or risk it.