Phenolic thermal inlet manifold spacers/gaskets

My inlet manifold is due to come off in the next week or so when the new inlet pipe arrives. Gizzmo thermal inlet spacers are $120 a set on trademe, is the cost worth the benfits? Also will I need new gaskets to sandwich the spacers with?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=653656878

;D

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/grimmspeed-thermal-phenolic-spacers-77228.html

Edit: Inlet temps ran 17C cooler at cruise speed and 28C cooler at idle.

Grimspeed 3mm or 8mm (about $79nz + freight)

http://www.grimmspeed.com/phenolic-thermal-manifold-spacer-8mm-impreza-n-a-99-08-legacy-n-a-00-09-forester-n-a-98-06/

Gizzmo 4mm (as seen on trademe)

http://www.gizzmoelectronics.co.nz/Product_GasketOthers.html

If I go the Gizzmo set at 4mm, plus double gaskets, am I going to need longer inlet manifold bolts as well?

Keeping an eye on this thread.

are they measuring the temp of the air or the temp of the metal manifold ?

The tester he uses is a probe/pyro type.

 

I took the temperature readings from the front centre intake runner using a professional quality CPS T200 temperature sensor with a time constant of the order of 5 seconds. The sensor was mounted on the front middle intake runner for all tests

Edit: He says \'sensor was mounted on the intake runner\', so must be manifold temp?

CPS T500:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Vintage-CPS-Temp-Seeker-Model-T-500-Temperature-Probe-Set-Test-A99915-59572-/121174042913?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item1c36892921

"front centre intake runner"

is this on a east west v6 ? no flat four ive seen has a front centre intake runner??

have you bypassed the coolant from the T/B?

and got a fmic etc ?

I\'m running OEM TMIC, no I haven\'t bypassed the Throttle body cooling? Guessing I should fitting the spacers.

My inlet pipes stuffed and I have a silicone one on the way, manifold coming off is the only reason I\'m looking into thermal spacers.

 lachlan said:

have you bypassed the coolant from the T/B?

and got a fmic etc ?

Is that the one where you lose your heater? Or is that when you bypass the heater core..

 Timmah']

[quote name='lachlan said:

have you bypassed the coolant from the T/B?

and got a fmic etc ?

/quote]

Is that the one where you lose your heater? Or is that when you bypass the heater core..

Option b

Tb hoses are where there is water run through the throttle body to stop it freezing shut or open when living in arctic climate, potential lowering of inlet temps by taking the water feed away

Did you order that silicone intake from ebay?

 Jord said:

Did you order that silicone intake from ebay?

Yip, just arrived today. Less than a week from China ;D

http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic,40134.0.html

BH/BE Throttle body coolant hoses:

Got the new Gizzmo spacers today 4mm, sandwiched with double gaskets total thickness is 6.44mm.

Quote from UKLegacy link:

"When compared to the 0.025 inch steel gasket it replaces, a quarter inch thick phenolic insulator will conduct 200-1000 times less heat! Although the insulation benefits increase with thickness, ¼ inch (6.4mm) sheet was chosen because this is the thickest that can generally be used with stock mounting studs and bolts."

So looks like I should get away with OEM studs but will double check when manifolds off.

But??? With alloy heads, alloy manifold and thermal spacers do I even want the standard steel/paper gaskets in there? Will they raise or lower heat transfer? Also it\'s just adding another 3 layers of possible leaks? So OEM gaskets as well or not? ???

 lachlan said:

"front centre intake runner"

is this on a east west v6 ? no flat four ive seen has a front centre intake runner??

have you bypassed the coolant from the T/B?

and got a fmic etc ?

Tests carried out by Outlaw Engineering, test car was a 94 Ford Probe GT 2.5L V6.

http://gizzmousa.com/thermal-gasket.html

Same test results used by Gizzmo and Grimspeed word for word in their spiels lol.

oh ffs

has to be car specific . eg they make them for a rb series engines but the are next to useless because the plenum on them is full of the coolant

Yeah no data Subaru specific, every discussion I\'ve seen on them points to the same original test by Outlaw Engineering, Some say Ford V6, some say it was a Mazda V6.

From all I\'ve read, from Subaru owners that have fitted them with responses in the above links and a few others

* I could never lean on the hot inlet manifold before, but now I can.

* But performance/gain wise, minimal, only bother with them if the manifolds already coming off.

I\'ve got a pyrometer that I could fit post turbo to see if exhaust temps drop at all, but it\'s just so much messing around for more than likely disappointing, un-conclusive results.

I could try borrow a decent thermometer/tester this weekend and do a few of my own before and after manifold temps, but I\'m also changing to a silicone inlet pipe and de-coolanting (new word) the throttle body, so again nothing conclusive?

I removed coolant lines from TB as part of an effort to tidy everything up. Never need them up here and coolant temp is over thrice IAT so cant be good in grand scheme of things.

Seems with most people fitting them in the states its so they can clear the alt with flipped mani and if it helps with heatsoak its an added bonus.

Idk why you would bother with ones that need gaskets as it adds a shitload of expense just buy ones that dont need them for jack shit more. Especially if youre like me and pull things apart for no apparent reason every second weekend.

For what its worth I\'ve been on/around/worked on a few cars with them and it genuinely does do what it says on the packet - engine up to temp and you can lean on the inlet mani where normally you would have burnt hands. They do work

The difference I imagine would be hard to quantify on the dyno instantly but as said, it won\'t do anything bad and most likely does do some good - as heat=bad. Much the same as heat-wrapping your intake pipe for example... more stopping a *loss* of power over time as opposed to gaining some out of nowhere

(Mazda / ford V6 will be the same motor for what its worth)

Yeah with the manifold sitting 15-25 degrees cooler I might get 3-5 degree drop in charged inlet temp maybe, which is better than nothing. Less heat through the mani means less heat transferred into my TMIC which has to help. I\'m going to scrap the OEM gaskets, I figure the layer of steel will hold heat I\'m trying to disperse/block? Just the spacers with a skim of gasket silicone. I see torque specs for the non turbo manifold is 18.1 ftlbs, Guessing the turbo probably more like 24 ft/lbs? Closer I am the less chance of it leaking

Heat wrapping an intake pipe could work against you tho. Keeps heat out so also keeps it in. Shouldnt really transfer heat to the tmic from the mani its held on by a rubber/silicon joiner not metal to metal. Depending on the price of the stock gaskets talked about the other day I may throw em in.

Hmmm to wrap or not to wrap, maybe better off with a layer of wrap between the block and inlet pipe so it can still disperse but is protected from the block? If I had some wrap laying around I might but nah.

After a good run the front edge of my TMIC is not far off the same temp as the manifold and the silicone joiner is still too hot to lean on. I imagine after the spacers go in the whole TMIC will be cooler and silicone joiner only just warm.

I already brought the double OEM gaskets ($17.50 per set), just been out and spoken to a mechanic/motorsport mate. He says use the OEM gaskets too, phenolic being so smooth and hard it wont compress at all or seal well against alloy but the steel/paper will.

Why not : Had some copper wire and 2" exhaust wrap was only $4.44pr/m. Thought about it and the OEM inlet pipe is suspended on 2 midway brackets so the new heavy silicone pipe will heat up, soften and droop to sit hard on the block. I can also use the copper to suspend the inlet pipe from the manifold

I brought an infrared thermometer prior to fitting the thermal spacers and monitored the external temp\'s of the block, manifold and throttle body. Then fitted the phenolic spacers, silicone intake pipe and bypassed the coolant to the throttle body. Then monitored temp\'s since, all were taken with an outside ambient of 13-14 degrees driving the same route trying to match boost levels and cruising speeds as much as possible. With the car up to temp before leaving. The chosen route (9km?) is mainly 100kph, then 1km of bends at 80kph, up drive, pop bonnet and take temps. I\'m very happy with the result, can\'t put it all down to the spacers as bypassing the TB coolant (thanks Gents) would have a major effect. Below is my average temps after 10 test runs before and after: ;D

Just done the same test lap with matching ambient temp. Using the new "Elcheapo" IC sprayer my TB temp is sitting at 18-19\'c. Previously it averaged 55-60\'. ;D

Edit: Make that 18-23\', I got a bit too excited.